Sackcloth is “An incoherant and ridiculous attempt at verse” that apparently is beyond understanding.
I can’t decide if I’m perplexed or just depressed.
Sackcloth is “An incoherant and ridiculous attempt at verse” that apparently is beyond understanding.
I can’t decide if I’m perplexed or just depressed.
Is that from Eratosphere? I avoid workshopping there.
I think it’s the same person who decided you were a troll!
Why do you avoid it? For these obvious reasons, or something else?
Well the funny thing about that is…I’ve linked to that person’s blog for 4 years at Poetry Hut hahaha.
There’s a certain inflexibility of thought sometimes there that I try to avoid, IMHO. Like there’s only one way to do something…or something.
Well, you know, you could be a very very patient troll. “I’ll just wait a few more years, and then I’ll have them right where I want them! Mwahaha!”
But yes, I completely understand what you’re saying. I actually used to be a mod there. I can hardly believe it when I go back.
At least you managed to get through the Erato door – I tried 3 times and they wouldn’t even send me a password.
I do enjoy reading Alan S comments: he rarely likes anything – last week was Rob’s turn, this week it’s yours. He even gave his Significant Other a public spanking a few days back. The truth of the matter is that he’s someone with very definite views of what poetry should be, and very few come up to those standards. Those that do tend to be personal or professional friends. Strange, that.
If you want to write Alan S poems, then take his comments to heart. If you don’t, then don’t. He does have his good points, such as being able to turn Tim M drivel into something that passes as reasonable. But does the world need more Alan S or Tim M clones?
My crit of your poem is that it needs a bit more focus and clarity to make it shine, but there’s a lot of material there that’s already working. I reckon you already know how you want to polish the words in the next draft …
wvazlew
They are/he is wrong.
I agree with Rik, the place does have its merits (probably more so for us lesser creatures) but it is cliquey and easily starstruck and that gets in the way of the poetry sometimes.
It seems sometimes that Mr Alan S (anyone else reminded of Josie?) destroys a poem just to keep his tally up and other times because it is easier than working at a poem which isn’t instantly on his wavelength.
I should hope that you know yourself (and him) well enough to just ignore him and carry on. You have 100 times his talent IMO.
Eloise
Well, I don’t any more, but that was mainly because the quality of the critique in the non-metrical forum left something to be desired. But I must admit that I have not considered posting much in the metrical forums. I don’t know enough to engage in metrical discussions, and to be frank I haven’t been bowled over by a whole lot of the new formalism. A lot of it is empty mucking about with structure, and Erato tends to be bad in that regard. It’s rare to see the kind of marriage of form and content that was achieved by pre-free verse poets, and Erato tends to get stuck on the form.
IMVHO, of course.
Rik, “Those that do tend to be personal or professional friends. Strange, that.” Yeah, it’s such a mystery. You forgot to mention how they’ll be male 9 times out of 10. Gosh, what a coincidence!
Eloise, cliquey and starstruck. That’s it exactly.
Scavella, I haven’t posted in the non-met in a long, long time. It never was very good, even when I was modding!
In any case, I managed to glean a little from Erato, and that’s about the best a person can hope for, eh?
“I can’t decide if I’m perplexed or just depressed.”
Go with perplexed. I find his confusion confusing. He was probably just drunk or seasick or full of himself or something. Besides, your writing is far more entertaining than what I saw of his. (Was that bad English?)
Agnes
Agnes, I was telling Gabriel the other day how hard it is for me to separate my opinion of a poet from my opinion of that poet as a critic. I know I’m supposed to, and I recommend it to others, as well. But I do have a hard time with it. So don’t encourage me! But thanks for the kind words.
I get frustrated with workshops, but like I said, it did force me to change a couple of words, and I might rethink the whole poem.
“I get frustrated with workshops, but like I said, it did force me to change a couple of words, and I might rethink the whole poem.”
The great thing is it’s your poem, and you can do with it whatever you please. Dress it up in ribbons. Wrap it in police tape. Shoot it with a paint gun. Spray it with vanilla. Anything you please. Ahhhhhhhh. Smell that? Life is good.
Agnes
I don’t workshop anymore, and I’m probably not a good critic, because I know what I like and can’t really explain it. I’m not formally trained, I work by ear, so screw it. If I like the way a poem sounds, I don’t care about much else. Plus I always felt, when I was in college, that people’s critiques were more about themselves than about the poem anyway – they had a persona or a role they were trying to perform for everyone else by picking things apart. Never was very helpful to me.
Twitches, that’s an interesting point. I know that I have commented on poetry at workshops at times because I felt I had to–not because I had something to say. I can often *think* of something to say, but how helpful is that for the poet? Probably not very.
In any case, I used to be in tune with workshopping, and now I’m not. I don’t think I’ve improved, I’ve just changed. A lot.