18 thoughts on “Submissions guidelines that make me shake my head Part II”
I was talking with an editor at a much older print-only mag at a University (a couple years ago). He said they don’t take electronic subs because of the cost of printing out (paper & toner) the subs.
There are a lot of lit mags that take electronic subs & don’t charge (DIAGRAM for one).
Right now I would not pay for it (any lit mag). I accidentally signed up at the 32 Poems sub site though haha because I was submitting poems this week. I didn’t notice that I’d have to pay $2.
It’s just galling to me to think of a poet having to pay to be heard. Poets without publications are still poets. Publications without poets are what?
I feel the same way. This summer I’m going to submit my manuscript to 1 open reading period at a press I like. If they don’t take it I’m just going to put it up at Poetry Hut & maybe Lulu if I can figure out the layout stuff for them.
I checked out the NEA grant application last week & they have a limit on the percentage of online versus print appearances your poems have had in lit mags. LOL.
Well, we already DO pay to be heard. We pay for the envelopes, the paper, the printer ink, stamps for the submission and the SASE. We also pay for word processing software, a printer, the internet time we use to find the journals to submit to, etc. I imagine that comes pretty close to about $2 a submission, the way it is. Probably more, actually.
I don’t have a problem with journals offering an online submission service that has fees associated so long as they leave the paper submission route open (as 32Poems does). That way, I can decide which way to spend my money. Cause I’m definitely going to be spending my money, no matter what.
I don’t pay. I don’t submit via mail.
I’m actually kind of keen to see what comes of Manuscript Hub (the service 32Poems is using). I think that sort of thing is going to be very popular in a few years—one stop, click-of-a-button submission to multiple places, manage-your-work kind of thing. I think their site design is a little ick, so I’m guessing this particular one won’t be The One. But still.
For now 82 cents + fraction of envelope cost is still my standard investment in the publishing process. Since I’m really not interested in publishing in 99.99% of online journals, I’m sad to say that the free, click-send-to-submit thing isn’t really in my realm of existence. So the submission fee doesn’t strike me as a very big deal, especially since I like 32Poems.
I still haven’t quite made it to the place where I can handle those $20+ manuscript reading fees, though. *shudder*
If you don’t want to pay ManuscriptHub, then send through the regular mail. I think that the creators of MH deserve to get paid for the time, programming and effort they put into creating it. Deborah at 32 Poems blog.32poems.com
I agree with Deborah that the creators of MH deserve to be paid something. But I question whether the submission service is worth $2 per submission.
Yes, once you pay for postage, envelopes, paper, ink, etc. then mailing your submission likely comes out to at least $2 and the response time is longer, but having seen other online services in the marketing realm, it seems that online services like this can be done for less than $2 per submission. I don’t know what it cost the makers to create the software to do this, but $2 per submission seems a bit much.
I think a monthly fee of $10-$15 with unlimited submission ability would be worth it and they’d likely get more submitters.
BTW, it isn’t 32 Poems charging that fee. It’s ManuscriptHub, a third-party service. I do like the idea of a submittal service. I think they’re onto something.
I can see how editors might benefit from such a service. How do poets benefit from paying to submit online when so many venues are free?
I consider it a benefit because I don’t have to bother with a terrible post office, printing and folding my sub and the general hassle of paper. Again, if you don’t want to submit online, then you can submit for free via snail mail.
Wow, I never thought adding a convenient way to submit would cause such ire.
I used it to submit to Meridian and was thrilled at the convenience.
PS: The “ire” I mentioned does not mean you, Julie. You asked a question and I have no issue with that. It’s the folks on poetry message boards who are grousing about the $2. Sheesh, it’s only $2. And some of these folks don’t even *read* 32 Poems, so why would they want to submit poems anyway?!
Hey, Deborah, thanks for taking our questions in the spirit they were intended. I think we all want your pub to be as successful as possible.
Julie,
I am especially open to criticism when it’s presented politely and directly. The grousing on message boards bugs me, because not one of those complainers either: 1. runs a poetry magazine; 2. subscribes to 32 poems; 3. reads 32 poems; 4. had the guts to come to me about it.
Even I completely disagree with you, which I don’t =), I respect that you brought the issue up on your blog in a space I’d definitely see it. Deborah at 32 poems
Oops, my last para of the previous comment *should* say:
“Even if I did completely disagree with you, which I don’t =), I respect that you brought the issue up on your blog in a space I’d definitely see it.”
Darn the inability to edit comments!
I would NOT pay $2 or $.2 — a magazine is privileged to receive work, however poor or amateurish. If the editors prefer traditional postal submissions, that is their right, but no one should have to pay to have their work considered. That would completely corrupt poetry publishing, which is already seriously compromised by the profusion of contests that one must pay for the “privilege” of entering.
I’m swayed to spend the $2 to submit, it’s still more convenient than the snail mail mess.
I, also, rotated off subscribing to 32poems- but I have to say, I miss it.
I’d be less likely to spend the momey to submit to a zine I was not familiar with-
I think it’s ridiculous. I edit for the Dead Mule, and here’s how it works. Poets sub,it via email. I read the poems on my monitor. I accept or reject the poems via email. It could be done the same day, but I’m usually not in that big a hurry. At any rate, it doesn’t take 6-8 weeks. Either I like a poem and plan to use it, or I don’t. Anyone else can do it that way, too. There are too many magazines to worry about the silly ones. Helen Losse
“I edit for the Dead Mule . . . .it doesn’t take 6-8 weeks.”
*coughs* *raises hand hesitantly*
Er, um, ah, Excuse me for interrupting, but I submitted several poems to Dead Mule almost 3 years ago, in the summer of 2005, and still haven’t heard back regarding them. It is, in fact the only submission I’ve ever had that’s taken more than 6 weeks to receive a reply.
I was talking with an editor at a much older print-only mag at a University (a couple years ago). He said they don’t take electronic subs because of the cost of printing out (paper & toner) the subs.
There are a lot of lit mags that take electronic subs & don’t charge (DIAGRAM for one).
Right now I would not pay for it (any lit mag). I accidentally signed up at the 32 Poems sub site though haha because I was submitting poems this week. I didn’t notice that I’d have to pay $2.
It’s just galling to me to think of a poet having to pay to be heard. Poets without publications are still poets. Publications without poets are what?
I feel the same way. This summer I’m going to submit my manuscript to 1 open reading period at a press I like. If they don’t take it I’m just going to put it up at Poetry Hut & maybe Lulu if I can figure out the layout stuff for them.
I checked out the NEA grant application last week & they have a limit on the percentage of online versus print appearances your poems have had in lit mags. LOL.
Well, we already DO pay to be heard. We pay for the envelopes, the paper, the printer ink, stamps for the submission and the SASE. We also pay for word processing software, a printer, the internet time we use to find the journals to submit to, etc. I imagine that comes pretty close to about $2 a submission, the way it is. Probably more, actually.
I don’t have a problem with journals offering an online submission service that has fees associated so long as they leave the paper submission route open (as 32Poems does). That way, I can decide which way to spend my money. Cause I’m definitely going to be spending my money, no matter what.
I don’t pay. I don’t submit via mail.
I’m actually kind of keen to see what comes of Manuscript Hub (the service 32Poems is using). I think that sort of thing is going to be very popular in a few years—one stop, click-of-a-button submission to multiple places, manage-your-work kind of thing. I think their site design is a little ick, so I’m guessing this particular one won’t be The One. But still.
For now 82 cents + fraction of envelope cost is still my standard investment in the publishing process. Since I’m really not interested in publishing in 99.99% of online journals, I’m sad to say that the free, click-send-to-submit thing isn’t really in my realm of existence. So the submission fee doesn’t strike me as a very big deal, especially since I like 32Poems.
I still haven’t quite made it to the place where I can handle those $20+ manuscript reading fees, though. *shudder*
If you don’t want to pay ManuscriptHub, then send through the regular mail. I think that the creators of MH deserve to get paid for the time, programming and effort they put into creating it.
Deborah at 32 Poems
blog.32poems.com
I agree with Deborah that the creators of MH deserve to be paid something. But I question whether the submission service is worth $2 per submission.
Yes, once you pay for postage, envelopes, paper, ink, etc. then mailing your submission likely comes out to at least $2 and the response time is longer, but having seen other online services in the marketing realm, it seems that online services like this can be done for less than $2 per submission. I don’t know what it cost the makers to create the software to do this, but $2 per submission seems a bit much.
I think a monthly fee of $10-$15 with unlimited submission ability would be worth it and they’d likely get more submitters.
BTW, it isn’t 32 Poems charging that fee. It’s ManuscriptHub, a third-party service. I do like the idea of a submittal service. I think they’re onto something.
I can see how editors might benefit from such a service. How do poets benefit from paying to submit online when so many venues are free?
I consider it a benefit because I don’t have to bother with a terrible post office, printing and folding my sub and the general hassle of paper.
Again, if you don’t want to submit online, then you can submit for free via snail mail.
Wow, I never thought adding a convenient way to submit would cause such ire.
I used it to submit to Meridian and was thrilled at the convenience.
Deborah at 32 Poems
http://blog.32poems.com
PS: The “ire” I mentioned does not mean you, Julie. You asked a question and I have no issue with that. It’s the folks on poetry message boards who are grousing about the $2. Sheesh, it’s only $2. And some of these folks don’t even *read* 32 Poems, so why would they want to submit poems anyway?!
Hey, Deborah, thanks for taking our questions in the spirit they were intended. I think we all want your pub to be as successful as possible.
Julie,
I am especially open to criticism when it’s presented politely and directly. The grousing on message boards bugs me, because not one of those complainers either:
1. runs a poetry magazine;
2. subscribes to 32 poems;
3. reads 32 poems;
4. had the guts to come to me about it.
Even I completely disagree with you, which I don’t =), I respect that you brought the issue up on your blog in a space I’d definitely see it.
Deborah at 32 poems
Oops, my last para of the previous comment *should* say:
“Even if I did completely disagree with you, which I don’t =), I respect that you brought the issue up on your blog in a space I’d definitely see it.”
Darn the inability to edit comments!
I would NOT pay $2 or $.2 — a magazine is privileged to receive work, however poor or amateurish. If the editors prefer traditional postal submissions, that is their right, but no one should have to pay to have their work considered. That would completely corrupt poetry publishing, which is already seriously compromised by the profusion of contests that one must pay for the “privilege” of entering.
I’m swayed to spend the $2 to submit, it’s still more convenient than the snail mail mess.
I, also, rotated off subscribing to 32poems- but I have to say, I miss it.
I’d be less likely to spend the momey to submit to a zine I was not familiar with-
I think it’s ridiculous. I edit for the Dead Mule, and here’s how it works. Poets sub,it via email. I read the poems on my monitor. I accept or reject the poems via email. It could be done the same day, but I’m usually not in that big a hurry. At any rate, it doesn’t take 6-8 weeks. Either I like a poem and plan to use it, or I don’t. Anyone else can do it that way, too. There are too many magazines to worry about the silly ones.
Helen Losse
“I edit for the Dead Mule . . . .it doesn’t take 6-8 weeks.”
*coughs*
*raises hand hesitantly*
Er, um, ah, Excuse me for interrupting, but I submitted several poems to Dead Mule almost 3 years ago, in the summer of 2005, and still haven’t heard back regarding them. It is, in fact the only submission I’ve ever had that’s taken more than 6 weeks to receive a reply.